If you are faced with a survival skills situation in nature, you are bound to encounter challenges. Our challenge in interviewing wilderness skills expert Dr. Nicole Apelian was how to narrow the focus of our interview when our interviewee has such a diverse and prolific background.
Nicole is known to many around the planet for her experience as a cast member on the History Channel's Alone Series, where she survived solo for 57 days in the wilderness of Vancouver Island. Side note, she developed a taste for giant slugs while on that trip, but that's another tale. Nicole is much more than a connoisseur of slimy gastropods. She has been a field biologist and game warden for the Peace Corps in Botswana where she began her studies of African lions. She has worked with the San Bushmen of the Kalahari Desert. She earned her doctorate in Cultural Anthropology. She has been a consultant for television and film projects including the acclaimed film Leave No Trace. She also is a sought after wilderness skills instructor.
In addition to enduring wilderness survival situations, she has persevered through other personal challenges. After being diagnosed with multiple sclerosis, she turned to medicinal herb studies which led to her recovery from this disease and the creation of Nicole's Apothecary where she sells herbal remedies and helps others treat this disease. She is also a co-author of the The Lost Book of Herbal Remedies, A Reference Guide to Surviving Nature, and her newly released book The Forager’s Guide to Wild Foods: Edible Plants, Lichens, Mushrooms, and Seaweeds.
We had an opportunity to sit down with Nicole and learn more about her strategies to prepare for and thrive in survival situations. She also shares how she finds balance and time to actually be alone in a distracted world.
Pathways: One thing stands out when watching your videos or browsing your websites...your beaming smile. Have you always been this happy since your girlhood days collecting shells and nests, or has your happiness grown as your connection to nature has deepened?
Nicole: I was always a pretty happy child, though any childhood has its moments of sadness and grief. I lived a pretty feral existence. I definitely had nature connection in my life. As I aged, my connection with nature grew a lot deeper. Not only did this connection increase my happiness, but it also helped me to move through periods of grief. We’ve all had moments of deep, deep grief in our lives, and I’m no exception. The two biggest ones for me are when I was diagnosed with MS when I was thirty, and the other was the death of my oldest son. For me, one of the biggest healers that allowed me to move through that grief was my connection with nature. The healing practices that nature offers allow us to move through grief with joy in the end.
Pathways: You write...
“When you experience discomfort in the wild like hunger, fear or severe weather, it’s not as if you are having “fun” during these trials. But six months later, while in the comfort of your home and thinking back on the hardship, there’s an indescribable joy that washes over you. It’s actually quite beautiful. I’m willing to contend with great discomfort to feel the joy in knowing that I was able to survive (and thrive) in raw, untamed wilderness.”
Pathways: When you have been in the moment of such discomforts in the wilderness, are you actually thinking about this joy that will come in the future as a way to help you persevere or is there a different approach you are using in the moment to get you through the challenges?
Nicole: I’m not actually thinking about the joy that comes in the future while in the midst of persevering or having moments of extreme discomfort in these wilderness experiences that I put myself into. That said, one thing that helps me get through it is that I actually find joy in the present moment, in the now. There is real power in that. When you are out foraging for yourself or surviving on your own, the only things right in front of your face in the moment are shelter, fire, water, food, and maybe medical needs. When you only have those things to think of, it really keeps you in the present moment. It’s like the old saying of “chop wood and carry water.” This holds true. When you are in the now, there’s a lot of joy that you have because you aren’t worrying about the past, obsessing about the future, or looking at your to-do list. I think this is really important. There is extreme discomfort at times, and while I’m not thinking about the end results, I am actually able to find joy through that discomfort. There are days of course that I really struggle like everybody else, but I’ve been able to move through those moments.
Pathways: You describe your life-changing experience of being diagnosed with MS and how you overcame this challenge in part through medicinal herbs. Was this a motivating force behind why you took a deep dive into the study of medicinal plants? Is overcoming this challenge a significant source of your happiness?
Nicole: Multiple Sclerosis definitely was a motivating force for why I took a deep dive into the study of medicinal plants. Overcoming MS was a significant challenge. Still, everyday I have to watch what I eat. I have to make sure I’m taking the right herbs and supplements, and I’m also spending time in nature and remaining balanced. That certainly has led to my happiness because all of those things discreetly, regardless of whether someone has MS, are important factors in how your body and brain feel, which definitely links to happiness. Becoming an herbalist has had a significant impact on how happy I am in life.
Pathways: In an interview, when asked about your custom knife that you used on The History Channel's Alone, you talked about spending lots of time training with it before going to the wilderness by doing things such as making feather sticks, splitting wood, etc. You practiced these skills as a way to develop muscle memory. Were there other tools or practices (athletic or mental/mindful) that you also did in preparation to develop a similar muscle memory for Alone?
Nicole: I definitely spent a lot of time using my custom knife to make feather sticks, split wood, etc. as a way to build muscle memory before going into the Alone experience. I did have other practices as well. I would take cedar bark and wet it overnight and then work it in the morning until it was fine enough to catch a spark. I did that over and over. I practiced the Wim Hoff method in order to get ready for the cold so my body would not be shocked by the weather. I practiced knots over and over, especially fishing knots for Vancouver Island, so I wouldn’t have to think about it, and instead it would be a skill that just came naturally. When you are tired, hungry, or cold, if you don’t have that muscle memory developed, it’s easy to forget things, and it’s harder to simply do these skills. I tried to overcome these challenges beforehand by making sure I had those things deeply ingrained in my brain. Traps were another thing that I practiced over and over to make sure I wasn’t thinking about how a trap would work while I was out there. I wanted to ensure that I knew them through and through.
Pathways: Many in the nature connection world thrive on being alone in nature, away from crowds, and the focus of attention. While you were on a program called “Alone”, this experience has helped to put a spotlight on you. How has that experience affected you? If you look back on yourself before and then after this experience, do you notice any changes in yourself?
Nicole: There’s been a lot of positive effects of being on TV, in that I’ve been able to have a big impact on the MS and autoimmune communities and give people hope for how to manage these disorders naturally through diet, lifestyle, supplements, and herbs. It’s also brought a lot of awareness to herbal medicine, wild foods, and foraging, which I think has been really positive. Demonstrating these skills on screen reaches people that might not be aware of these practices. To me that feels really good to expose more people to natural ways of being and natural ways of connection.
As for looking back on myself before and after these experiences, I have noticed changes in myself. The main change is that I am more guarded about my privacy and personal time. I live in nature, so it’s really easy to get regular alone time. I don’t have any close neighbors. I’m lucky that I have that kind of access to nature.
Pathways: You write about how you grew up with little television or technology. With all the digital distractions of the modern world, are there routines, practices, or boundaries that you set for yourself (or family) to ensure that you can still have regular alone time in nature?
Nicole: During Covid I found myself more digitally distracted. I have to actively set boundaries or it’s very easy to fall into a routine that isn’t healthy physically or mentally. I moved to the middle of nowhere purposely. I never expected that I would be in the public eye so much. While the wonderful things of this experience far outweigh any of the negatives, I’ve definitely had to learn the art of saying “no” to maintain my personal balance. Weekends and evenings are off limits. I reserve them for my family. I find that every three to six months that my plate gets so full that I have to reevaluate. I have to think- what is not important? What can I pull off my plate? A few weeks ago I spent a week writing down how I was allocating my time, including time online, in order to figure out what I could let go of or delegate. Maintaining this balance can be really hard but I find it’s necessary.
Pathways: Where do you see yourself going from here? What are your latest curiosities and skills that you are working on?
Nicole: I just finished a wild foods book, The Forager’s Guide to Wild Foods: Edible Plants, Lichens, Mushrooms, and Seaweeds, that comes out in mid-May. I’m really excited about this new book. Like my herbal remedies book I think it will have a wide appeal. I’ve tried to make it the most comprehensive wild foods book out there. I’m hoping it will inspire a lot of people to access resources in their own backyards. I’m always working on my herbal apothecary to make it better, and love writing for my blog. Family is really important, so I’m taking some trips with my teenage boys to make sure we have good quality time together before they fly the coop.
Pathways: You can connect with Nicole to learn more about her experiences, products, events, or to contact her through these links:
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As Nicole describes above, knowing wild edible and medicinal plants is not only essential to surviving in a wilderness situation, but can have a transformative effect on your life. With so many plants to encounter in the wild, beginning this process can seem daunting. The good news is that for most people, there are edible and medicinal plants right outside your door, to be found in backyards, vacant lots, or nearby parks. In the video below we show you a handful of plants that can jumpstart your learning journey. If you research and journal these plants, you will open a doorway to an awareness of the natural world of edible and medicinal plants.
But before I proceed further, first...The Dunker’s Disclaimer
70's Fahrenheit— In early June last year, my friend Duncan called me on the phone. "Ken, I'd like to work on my crawl stroke. Since you used to coach swimming, could you give me some pointers?" Duncan showed up the next morning, and we started swimming across the pond. I gave him some pointers. The water was a comfortable temperature, in the mid-seventies. We started swimming three times a week at 7 am. Dawn patrol fishermen dotted the shore, and occasional morning swimmers roamed the periphery. After two and a half years living by the pond, I hadn't "trained" by doing long distance swimming in these waters. I usually ventured down daily to romp in the pond with family and friends. For some reason I had been in a rut. I believed the indoor pool was for "training" and outdoors was for fun and play. That was about to change.
60's— I remember thinking at the pond one morning..."Where did all the swimmers go?" Getting in the water in the morning was starting to feel a bit jolting to my body. When I surfed in California, the ocean water was usually between 55-60 degrees Fahrenheit year round. During the early New England fall, the kids and I had continued surfing in New Hampshire, Boston, and Rhode Island. We had been tracking the local ocean temperature at those locations. The pond temperature felt like it was in the same range. Being curious as to the daily pond temperature, I went to the local hardware store and bought a cheap thermometer. It confirmed that the temperature was in the 60’s. The morning swims felt so refreshing. The hot cup of coffee upon returning home after swims tasted better as I hugged it to my chest for warmth.
40's— I kept swimming several times a week in my wetsuit. And then I saw the documentary My Octopus Teacher. In the movie, Craig Foster mentioned that he swam everyday for a year in the South African coastal waters. He said the water was around 5 degrees Celsius year round. I was a big fan of his work and had seen all of his previous documentaries. I pulled up the conversion table. 5 Celsius = 41 Fahrenheit. Craig swam in the movie with only a mask, snorkel, fins, a neoprene hoodie, and shorts. The previous winter I had taken a Wim Hof cold training course and had spent 15 minutes up to my neck in the water on the edge of the pond on a sunny January morning. My January dunk the previous winter was a glimpse into this cold water experience.
The first day it snowed while I was swimming in the pond, Phoebe joined me, paddling the kayak. She wore her favorite rainbow colored snow jacket. The water was warmer than the air, so it actually felt more comfortable to be in the water than standing on shore in the snow. Some winter days though, when the wind blew, and the snow was on the ground, it was really hard to get out of the water (or into the water). One windy winter day my fingers were so cold that I couldn't get my socks on when I emerged. Attempting to insert a wet foot into a fuzzy snow boot resulted in a wardrobe malfunction, and I had to hobble home trying to push my skateboard while wearing floppy boots. It didn't work well.
Break-Up— As spring approached, the ice began to thaw around the edges and I resumed short dunks and then longer forays. One day as the ice retreated, I donned my wetsuit, hoodie, and gloves and called on my kayak copilot. Being someone who studies "survival" skills, I wanted to have a gauge for how thin ice needed to be to fall through, and what it would feel like to break through thin ice. With Phoebe as my backup, I swam to the edge of the remaining ice sheet and scrambled onto the ice. I jumped up and down until it cracked and I fell through. I did this repeatedly and practiced scrambling out onto thin ice after falling through. I appreciated my wetsuit and my copilot. I learned a lot that day about ice dynamics and how to practice pulling myself out should I ever need the skill. I had so much fun that a few days later I tried it again, but the warming conditions had changed so rapidly that I could no longer scramble onto the ice. Instead, it broke under my arms as I swam. I’d have to wait until next winter to try again.
"After drop", also known as peripheral vasoconstriction, is what happens after you leave cold water. When your body is exposed to cold, it cleverly closes down the circulation in your limbs in order to keep the core and its vital organs warm. When you get out of the water and put warm clothes on, the body reverses the process. The warm circulation returns to the limbs, but this time the cold blood of the limbs returns to the core body and your core temperature will actually drop. So you start shivering. I'd make my coffee with shivering hands and then sit on a couch wrapped in a wool blanket until the shivering subsided while I read a book.
It's really hard to describe the sensation of the deep cold swims. The moment I plunged into the cold water, my lungs reflexively gasped, but then, after the first initial strokes, I was just there. Sometimes it was a detached feeling, as if I were an observer watching my arms move through the air and water. Other times I was lost in the experience, as I gazed at the patterns of rocks, stumps, leaves, and fish below me. My favorite moments happened at the end of the swims, when I rolled over, grabbed my buoy and just floated— I lost the boundary between my form and the water, watched the clouds drift, felt my heartbeat in my chest, and was glad to be alive for another day.
I once asked the Grandmaster of ninjutsu, Hatsumi Sensei, "When do we learn the survival techniques like building survival shelters, making fire, fishing line and cordage, trapping animals, hunting and other survival skills?"
calabash bowls for eating. What we didn’t bring was food.
There’s much more to this story, which I will share in future posts. I hope this story helps inspire people to go into nature and push yourself occasionally. It’s good to sometimes be uncomfortable in situations that you might not think you could ever endure.
Hi, this is Mark Roemke with 
Today's blog is about a roll called hicho kaiten, the "flying bird" roll. This roll is from Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu, or ninjutsu, the "art of the ninja". This particular roll is an amazing roll. It has saved my life on multiple occasions and has prevented me from getting broken bones or worse. Here is a true story of how hicho kaiten saved my life.
Most practitioners of ninjutsu who are part of the Bujinkan are familiar with the 5th Dan test. Students from around the globe travel to the Bujinkan honbu dojo (home dojo) in Nodashi, Japan to take this test. For this level of progression, a would-be 5th Dan sits with their back to a Dai Shihan or Soke (grandmaster) who is holding a training sword above their head. This test consists of one challenge. To pass, the student must sense the exact moment when the sword is coming down at their head and must instantly roll out of the way.
Fortunately, we found one such teacher. His name is Josh Lane. He is the author of the award winning new book 
How do you attain this? The first step is simply to take some time to be in the moment. Let go of your agenda. Let go of the things you were dealing with earlier in your day. Give yourself ten to fifteen minutes to just be present and settle into where you are. Focus on how you are feeling and how the landscape around you feels.
There's a different feeling around you in the forest when the animals are going about their usual business feeding, foraging, resting, singing, or working on their nests. That's what we call a harmonious feeling or baseline versus when a predator is on the move. When a predator is nearby, the birds become alarmed. This creates an agitated sensation amongst the animals. By becoming present, you open up the possibility to tune into the feeling of a place and to the feeling of what's going on around you. This helps you awaken intuition because we have to be present in the first place to tap into it.
When you have an instinctual experience, you can think of it as the voice of the ancestors communicating through genetic or energetic encoding. This helps us to survive and thrive. Instinct can speak through a "gut feeling" that we're all familiar with. However, it might speak in other ways.
Josh: I often suggest that people should begin by walking very slowly. Try slowing down to a third or quarter of your usual speed. Feel each footstep. Be fully in your senses. Notice how you are feeling physically and emotionally. Tend to your physical needs first. This will allow you to be more fully present. Are you feeling open and receptive to nature? How do you feel internally? Once you are present, expand your senses outward. Notice what's going on with the birds and the wind. Notice the scent of the air. Open each of your senses fully. I go deep into this in my book, Conscious Nature. I teach the four stages of meditating outdoors. Each stage is designed to help tap into your intuition. As you get into your senses, start to notice if things arise on the screen of your mind's eye. As your senses notice things, do you get a flash of anything in your mind's eye or a sense of knowing? It could even be a gut feeling that there might be something interesting to check out in a particular direction. Some people call this "body radar." Follow up on your intuition. Explore nature and see what you discover. This is how you build trust and capacity with intuition because intuition is a sense. The more you work with it, the more it comes to life. This is what I teach in my course Exploring Intuition in Nature. It only takes ten to fifteen minutes a day to make a difference and to start developing your intuition.
Pathways: Anything else you'd like to share with us?
Kyle: I grew up on the outskirts of Milwaukee Wisconsin. When I was younger I was interested in rough housing and physical arts. Later, after becoming an IT technician I realized that all of my personal skills depended upon equipment. I relied solely on technology to express my skills. My life was changed when I took a survival course where they taught us how to make shelter, fire, and how to move in nature. I remember making my first bow drill fire at that course. At that moment I realized my greater potential. I realized I was capable of so much with so little. Then I studied and eventually became an instructor at Wilderness Awareness School in Washington State. After years of sitting at a desk as an IT professional, my experience in the wilderness taught me that nature allowed me to express myself physically in the way that I wanted to be. I’ve been teaching since then. Now I facilitate transformative experiences in nature centered around movement and play.
Pathways: Why would a practitioner of ninjutsu (or any martial art) benefit from this training?
Over twenty years ago I met a young instructor at the world-renowned Tracker School, run by Tom Brown Jr. He was teaching bow and arrow making, among other skills. I was blown away by his attention to detail and craftsmanship. In a subsequent course, the "scout class," all students, myself included, made "scout pits" which were hidden, subterranean sleeping shelters that we slept in during the week-long course. This young instructor was also teaching at that class, however, I learned that he had taken the subterranean sleeping shelter to another level. At the time, he was living in an underground hogan shelter that he built, complete with a fire chimney that exited secretly through an old hollow stump on the surface.
Tom and I actually live in the same town of Santa Cruz, California. I first heard of Tom through local friends. I met him when we did a podcast interview of him at his house several years ago. We discussed how survival skills and ninjutsu go together. Little did I know that I would be going to one of his island survival courses a few years later. More on that adventure in an upcoming post. That first experience with Tom would lead me to some really fun adventures in nature. I'm really excited that we get to work with Tom. He's an amazing survival skills instructor and is very tuned in to the natural world.
Another experience stands out. While staying with a tribe in the Amazon, a hunter named Nanto and I wandered too far into an "undiscovered" tribe's territory in the jungle. They are a very hostile group. Many intruders into their territory have been found dead with a spear in them. One day, we were out blow-gunning birds and came upon Puma tracks on a tree. Nanto mentioned that the shaman had told him that he needed to be wary of Puma as they were a sign that he was in danger. Soon after that, we came across two spears crossed in an 'X' across the trail. Essentially this was our one warning that this one tribe, the Taegeri, were watching and they were telling us that we had gone too far. If we went any further, that would have been the end. Nanto was pretty shaken up when he saw that, which made me literally shake. Luckily we took the warning, turned around, and quickly headed back to his village.
Tom: One of my favorite shelters I have ever lived in was one that was a completely underground hogan. To get into the shelter you would lift a small oak bush to reveal a door, then climb down a ladder into the shelter. One could walk directly over it and not know it was there. I even had a “chimney” going into a hollow tree stump to dissipate the smoke so you wouldn't notice it.
Tom: After 25 years since making my first friction fire, I still get a huge kick out of it. When I lived in the woods at age 18 for a year, I wouldn't allow myself to have any fire unless I got it with a hand drill or bow-drill. After consistently getting friction fire for 6 months, one day it just stopped working. I still don’t understand why, but I could not get a friction fire for about 5 days. This was in the middle of December, so you can imagine how difficult it was to not have light or warmth in my shelter, warm food and all the things I was taking for granted. After 5 days, to finally get that back was incredible. I was so grateful then and still feel grateful even today when I get a fire.
Tom: I try to pour myself into every book of that area to learn about plant life. Then I try to see what indigenous people of that area do/did. I think through all the potential problems I could face and try to play it all out in my head beforehand. Of course there are always surprises, and I only find a few of the hundreds of plants I have studied. But, I do plan for how to provide the basics of Shelter, Water, Fire, Food. After that, I just try to get creative based on what I discover in real-time.
Tom: I feel really fortunate to have spent a year living off the land when I was 18. That entire year I spent about $300-$400 in total. What this has gifted me is the ability to know that no matter what happens in my life, I can always go back to that forest and do that again. Because of this, I felt free to take chances on pursuing my passions rather than always playing it safe. I always had an answer to the big “what if things fall apart?” question. I think this gives people confidence to live in less fear, even if they never actually use it. Knowing you can survive off the land gives you a confidence that even the wealthiest person does not have.
Tom: In one of my classes, there was a Master Chief from the Navy Seals. He was built like a Greek God and probably one of the scariest people I could ever meet. He had been in the Seals for more than 20 years, and I can't imagine the talents he possessed. During one class on tanning deer hides, my co-instructor had everyone make small leather bags of the buckskin. She taught everyone how to sew various stitches and at some point this Navy Seal called me over asking me how to do a ‘whip-stitch’. I told him that for a guy as tough as he was, I found it funny he was asking me how to sew a tiny little leather pouch to go around his neck. Surely this was beneath him at this point. He then looked at me and commented that being a warrior was about collecting as many skills as possible, and the only way he rose to the top of the Seal program was because he never stopped learning, and finding new things to learn.
Before long, a small covey of California quail appeared. Quail are usually very skittish. When they see people they usually run or fly away while making a lot of alarm calls. When these quail came out, one of them flew up to a nearby tree about six feet off the ground. It looked over toward the other bush where the previous little bird was, and then it looked back at us. The quail gave no alarm. The rest of the quail walked by us while continuing to eat. Soon they were right next to us, less than two feet away!
In today's post, Dai Shihan Mark Roemke shares a technique for locking in the energy of a place of power.
My daughter learned this technique in the NTTV Live class with Sensei Roemke the other day. The next day we were out with our Ninjas in Nature Youth Program making rope ladders and then practicing the art of disappearing into the the trees. My daughter was the first to climb into the tree. She disappeared high into the tree. Several other young ninjas followed up the ladder and scrambled around the lower branches of the tree. I noticed my daughter was being very still.